Heroes

Postby Cybermotron on Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:55 pm

Yes that's right the politician and his brother do fly...at the end of the episode. After the brother has spent the whole episode yapping about how he thinks he can fly based on a recurring dream.

The character of Hiro was the other character who jumped to big conclusions. The way he reacted to sending the clock back one second was incredibly hard for me to relate to. When you see weird shit, or weird shit happens you don't react like that, not in this day and age, even if he suspected that he did (obviously it was what he was trying to do), surely anyone would treat it with some reservation, a hint of disbelief. 'I did it...or did I...am I going crazy' That sort of thing. You wouldn't run around your office like a lunatic preaching that you did it, and you wouldn't start telling people you can definetely also teleport, based on an pure assumption...well, maybe you would if you were as irritating as him.

On your final note I actually am a big fan of Prison Break and Lost although I can see the obvious flaws in both shows. I guess I just like the characters, and thats what it comes down to I suppose, a matter of personal taste. I find the characters in Heroes irritating...at least as far as the pilot goes. I do think the show could have potential, there is a good enough set up for great things to happen, I just didn't think the pilot did any justice to this material or the genre in general.

I can agree with you on one point...I don't get why anyone watches medical drama.
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Postby apple head on Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:33 am

The asian kid really plays the naive weird nerd, that I imagine would over react to something as making the second hand move backward with his mind. Normal person no. That guy, yes.

If we want to be accurate, if the kid was a real Japanese nerd (Otaku) he would be quoting, Macross, Gundam, Maybe even Cowboy Beepop, or Astro Boy anyday over Star Trek. As popular and Famous Star Trek is I don't know if it has reached Japan in the way it has America. I think the Trekkie phenomenon is another Slice of Americana. Are there big trekkie conventions in other places of the world?

I can list many other things that's wrong with the show.

For starters, no comic artist is that hip looking, and has their art in that type of Galleries, with the yuppie billionaire clientelle.

The whole bending time thing is a flawed concept. The biggest evidence of time travel not existing, is that there hasn't been anyone yet from the future coming back in time to tell us to stop poluting, unless Al Gore IS from the future.

The whole siler or however you spell his name without spoiling it for anybody is a weird concept.

The guy that read minds, has the capability of reading one mind at the time.

To like the characters is a taste thing. Some people prefer blue to orange. I like the characters :)

You also have to give it this, it's beatifully shot. I don't know what type of schedule Heroes runs on, but as an Example I know for 'My name is Earl' they only have 5 days. So to get all the fancy pants shots, comp in some pretty descent effects, and as far as I can see not too many continuity problems. Considering they have 20 odd 1 hour episodes to make shooting time can't be much longer.

Then again Scrubs (I like), Prison Break and Lost also look the business. As does NYPD Blue, shame it's got Zack from Saved by the Bell in it, and cop shows bore me.

Has the fat guy from Lost gotten any thinner yet?
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Postby Cybermotron on Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:33 am

Yeah, I agree it does look money. Very shmick production. And in that pilot one of the first shots was a fully CG shot of the city! That couldn't have been cheap. You don't often see that stuff in TV shows.

Actually, I have also been known to watch a bit of Scrubs, but I always considered it a comedy. I used to be into cop shows, but I am now well and truly over them, its just overkill, and none can ever seem to match the intensity and clever writing of Homicide: Life on the Street...although an honourable mention should be made for Aussie show Wildside which really tried to push the barriers on the intensity factor. And the original Law and Order was entertaining to me for a while.

And no...the fat guy is still a fat guy.
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http://forums.pulpfaction.net/viewtopic.php?t=1895
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Postby apple head on Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:04 am

Just because it's comedy, it doesn't mean it can't be cinematographically beatiful.

Scrubs has some top notch camera moves and scene transitions. It's a really well thought out show, even though Zach Braff is now annoying over being a cool geeky guy.

I also love everything about my name's Earl which is another top notch comedy shot to look like a movie, with beatiful lighting, and great cinematography.

I think gone are the days where a TV show has to look crap next to a movie.

Tonight again, I go out for coffee with a friend and discover that Alias is on again :roll: It's a top notch looking show even if I don't like it.

Back to heroes and pointless facts. The Hiro character is actually an animator at ILM. More crappy facts, during the shooting of the pilot he was still working on Pirates of the Carebean: Dead Man's Chest. Apparantly he still part times there.

Also computer effects have gone a lot down in price in the past ten years. For starters the hardware is a lot cheaper, and with the popularity and boom in the industry, finding a CG animator is a dime a dozen. They also command less money then they did back then.

I also think the DVD market gives TV shows extra revenues, so producers are more willing to throw more money at these projects.

See here you go whinging about believability, and after 3 years of beeing stranded on an island running around hunting, being chased by dinosaurs or what not, and the guy doesn't loose weight. :p

Then again if anybody is expecting a realistic show about flying people, and timetravellers and people who paint the future, well I suppose our Idea of reality might differ a bit :)
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Postby Cybermotron on Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:46 am

All I was saying about scrubs was that I always thought of it as a comedy, not a drama. I also agree that it is suberbly shot and executed. My Name is Earl is another show I very much enjoy and admire the production values of.

I very much agree that looks-wise TV is getting closer and closer to movies.

Now on the believability stakes, I don't think it has to have anything to do with realism. It has to do with adhering to the rules of the world you have created. Heroes rules are that in the normal world, normal people suddenly discover they have special powers. If these characters who are supposed to be normal everyday joes, suddenly start behaving like normal people don't or wouldn't...then I can't relate. I could suspend my disbelief that these people have super powers as I've done countless times before...but all of the great superheroes were great because you could relate to them as people or at least understand where they were coming from. Thats the kind of believability I'm talking about.

Lost, as ludicrous as the show is (and I will be the first to admit it), is also teaming with complex, flawed and believable characters. You believe them because they follow the rules of the show. In your example, the fat guy or Hurley as he's known hasn't lost any weight, because A. He had a secret stash of food...and B. In the show's time line only about two months have actually past.

And I'm not talking about breaking the rules of convention, or stepping outside the square, or daring to be different. Every movie or show or comic or band that ever did that...made their own rules...once these are set they're hard things break without losing the plot.

Believability is my problem with the characters in Heroes, not the premise...I beleived it well enough when it was about X-Men, even though I always realised it was in so many ways stupid (how can a guy with wings have the same genetic mutation as a woman who can control the weather, or a guy who shoots lasers out of his eyeballs!) it was always just the base for discussing deeper issues, and showing cool shit. X-men always had great characters, believable in the context of their world.

My problem with the premise of Heroes is that it is so heavily cliched and the story devices it employed to tell it were also heavily cliched...I nearly puked during that taxi scene...(Damn I wish there was a puke smiley).

Now I'm not discounting that the show may pick up, I'm just talking about the first episode. I will probably even watch the next episode, in the hopes that it will redeem itself...and from the looks of some of the posts in this thread it may just do that.
My 24 hour comic from this year which I'm still finishing....
http://forums.pulpfaction.net/viewtopic ... 1956#31956

And the one from last year which I did finish...
http://forums.pulpfaction.net/viewtopic.php?t=1895
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Postby apple head on Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:37 am

I only caught bits and pieces of Lost, so my opinion of the show is hardly valid ;) so the impression I got is based on the episode where they were chasing some french voices or something, and the ads on TV.

I think the cliche's is a style the creators were going for, as everycharacter fits a cliche, the black person is chased by the police, the all american blond cheerleader, the politician running for office looks anyother TV character, the Japanese character is kooky, and I would say only the comic artist might not be as cliche, but If you see a lot of the top cow artists actually they do fit his description, I met Joe Weems, Francis Manapul, and seen Michael Turner, Mark Sylvestry, and they are not the fat single guy living in the parents basement. We all know how cool our local boys Jon Sommariva, Ben Templesmith and Paul Abstruse are :)

They don't take crack though, actually I know a few people that do drugs, but none draw comics.

Went off track, but there's so much going on in the show that I find interesting I can understand and live with the cliche's. Superhero comics and America are cliche to begin with.

I reckon you might find it interesting after episode 3 or 4 when the heroes start doing more interesting things, and start looking for eachother, as well as the minor characters with powers show up. The show is mainstream, and is dumbing down some elements, but it is fun if you can get over some elements. Now if it's worth your time or not I dunno. I don't watch TV regularly, and if I didn't catch it on '.avi' I wouldn't be defending it, as I would have avoided it on TV.
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Postby Egofreaky on Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:13 am

Cybermotron: What, like this? Image
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Postby Cybermotron on Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:16 pm

Hey Egofreaky...that pic isn't loading up.
My 24 hour comic from this year which I'm still finishing....
http://forums.pulpfaction.net/viewtopic ... 1956#31956

And the one from last year which I did finish...
http://forums.pulpfaction.net/viewtopic.php?t=1895
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Postby JasonBerekLewis on Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 pm

Heroes is written as a cliche to appeal to a wider audience - no one can sustain a show only on the comic geek demographic, especially not one as as expensive as Heroes must be to shoot.

I am really enjoying this - it has stereotypical characters, but all good heroes should be cut from the cloth of archetype.
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Postby Demongoldfish on Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:11 pm

I'm tottaly hooked on this show now [which isn't hard for me i got hooked on lost ffs] and i have now caught up with the states wich is episode 16ish and its starting to get really good. its no longer at that annoying stage where everyone is fucking around trying to work out their powers or be introduced as a character, although having said that they just introduced a new person last episode.

its no masterpiece by any means and it is a very popularized [is that a word?] version of what it could be but hell it beats the crap out of most other shows on at the moment, and its the best "super power" show i have seen since i can remember.

what does shit me to no end tho is they keep using "genetic evolution" as an excuse as to why everyone has these powers. evolution simply does not work like that. for humans to have evolved to what we are now has taken thousands upon thousands of generations and each step in the evolution would have been the tiniest little detail in one newborn baby out of a million born over hundreds of years. so to use it as an excuse for supposedly hundreds of people to suddenly have full blown super hero powers, ranging from flight to altering time, in the space of one generation is complete bullpoopy. hell blaming it on magical unicorns that have been living below the earth surface would have been more plausible. anyway thats my half assed half educated rant and all that aside it is a good show :D
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Postby Li'l Sketchy on Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:29 pm

Excerpt from a review in The Age Green Guide, March 15, by Kenneth Nguyen...

'...at its best Heroes demonstrates a recognition of its station, as nothing more or less than a comic book given flesh. Kapow! Pazam!'

...sigh...
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Postby practicecactus on Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:42 pm

I gotta say, my interest is dying for this show. I'm watching it on tv and man...how many episodes in and nothings happened yet?
Just a lot of shocked and scared expressions and people with problems..*yawn*
Something good better happen soon or I'll start turning on it like with Lost.
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Postby Demongoldfish on Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:59 pm

i know this is a real put off but if you can hold out till episode 15-18 thats when shit starts to happen and then the season ends...
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Postby maggie on Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:37 pm

apple head wrote:For starters, no comic artist is that hip looking...


Jase Harper is probably that hip. But, yeah, I don't think billionaires go to skate deck art openings...

apple head wrote:The whole bending time thing is a flawed concept. The biggest evidence of time travel not existing, is that there hasn't been anyone yet from the future coming back in time to tell us to stop poluting, unless Al Gore IS from the future.


That's a non-testable assertion (even if you are just joking heh). If someone from 2020 comes back in time and stops a nuclear war without our knowledge, we can't know it. Even when 2020 comes around we won't witness that person going back in time, because the future that act occurred in won't exist for us. For all we know, there was a future in our track where Gore was president and wasn't hot on climate change, so someone went back in time an made sure that he got interested in the subject in college, but somehow this caused him to lose the election -- The outcome we have now being a result of that. And 'now' that future ceases to be reachable on our track, so whomever made the first trip can't know what happened, good or bad, because he/she is theoretically stuck in our time track (and, therefore, can't go back to their non-existent track and try again.) If they could go back to where they started from - which is probably impossible, even if time travel were - , it would be exactly the same for them when they got back, but we would be on a different track. To be back in the time that they left from requires that time to not stop existing, therefore it must have the same predecession. This is the 'Law of Strict Causality for the Activation Ordering' and can't be beaten, as far as we're aware. Paradoxes are crazy making.

Shows where some future people are looking back and verifying results of their meddling, now that's nonsense. They'd have to live on a different track from us and then... why the F would they care what happened on our time track? It would be like mounting a mission from Mexico to stop a guy in China from farting - who could care? If they want to time travel and muck with causality, they need to put their base in the past, not the future. But even then... causality is likely to make you suddenly poof out of existence one day.

Don't ask me why I took the time to write all that... hehe
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Postby practicecactus on Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:35 pm

maggie wrote: why the F would they care what happened on our time track? It would be like mounting a mission from Mexico to stop a guy in China from farting - who could care?

Ah, but what if it's like a butterfly effect, except instead of a butterfly's wing flapping causing a hurricane, it was some chinese dude's fart causing a rip in every time space continuum.

..yeah, think about it.

Now imagine if he lit the fart..
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