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The Pulp Faction • View topic - sydney printers

sydney printers

Working for yourself or for a publisher, chat about the business side here.

Postby jpaulos on Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:10 pm

Thanks guys,
I've been away for a few days to Brisbane ... apologies for not catching up with anybody there, there just wasn't the time with a small baby in tow! I haven't had a chance to read through all the replies yet, but here's a quick comment from Daren White at DeeVee (thanks Daren, I'm sure you won't mind me sharing this here)

Daren sez ...
For a small run of issues for the Sydney con, I'd get quotes from a couple of print shops for copy-tech (or sometimes docu-tech). You probably know the methodology, however you provide print ready digital files, on disk, and its printed in a similar way to a digital photocopy, but without any imperfections creeping in from the photocopy scan plate. That's how we printed Flange, if you've seen that. I think David Tang did his Knee Pockets the same way. You can choose paper and cover stock, and its relatively cheap to do small print runs. I'd go for a heavy stock cover, but choose black and white (or a single colour stock). A colour cover can almost double the price. I recall we did 100 copies of Flange, 48 pages, card B+W cover, for around $3 each. That was for a standard US sized issue, saddle stitched. I think a run below 50 would have increased the unit price to around $5. That was a few years ago, but should still be indicative.
End quote!

This is the model I'd like to use. Lulu is fine (and for the record rumpus roomie, the Lulu books arrive with packaging Fort Knox would be proud of, so no problems with 'crinkling' ...) but it's not economical for short runs of small books. TPB's are another story ...
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Postby azahru on Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:52 am

mmm, I'm thinking of using Kainos printing for sampler I'm taking to Supanova. Their prices seem vastly lower (which is a little scary when it's not brimming with hope) and they seemed really responsive. I'll let you know how they go, or if anyone else uses them first make sure you post about it :)
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Postby Daren White on Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:42 pm

Further to Jason's post, and having just returned from Sydney, it's worth pointing out how much more expensive everything seems to be there, compared to Brisbane. My Flange prices were in April 2005, from a Brisbane print shop.
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Postby Baden on Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:29 pm

I actually own and run a printing company and looked at our regular prices versus the Kablam site. I could get pretty close (using the example of 200 44pp books self cover Kablam is US$852 I got to about AUD$1000 without trying too hard) but they are obviously doing them in bulk in set formats and reaping the rewards in terms of US click charges and setup costs for things like bindery and finishing costs.

You are barking up the wrong tree going to a snap, kinkos or kwik kopy as generally they are proud of the fact they are so expensive - I bet the $27 price came from one of them. Onliners are pretty bad too as they are generally interested in commodity print ie making all the jobs fit their template so they can gang the jobs up and make more money.

Find a smaller local place who have invested in digital equipment in the last two years and they will be your best bet for a good price and quality - they should care if you come back - just make sure you eyeball the press - plenty of shonky brokers out there.
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Postby matt g on Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:15 pm

Hey Baden,

Is that price for full colour?

So looking at a price there of $5 per unit, we may have a retail ceiling of, say, $9 to be within the realm of "a comic book should cost this much*", and a retailer wanting around 50% wholesale price - that's still a loss of 50c / unit

*I sometimes think the perception of comics in terms of pricing is that people only think in terms of 24page, and graphic novel - and that there's nothing in between.

cheers
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Postby Baden on Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:57 pm

Yeah full colour. But like I say i wasn't trying that hard - deals can be done etc.

There are a couple of basic truths here anyway. One is that regardless of the method, the more you print the cheaper it gets. 100-200 is more expensive than 200-400.

The other is that the economics of small runs clash badly with the economics of retailers who (not unreasonably) expect 50-70% of the purchase price.

Small digital runs are good if you are retailing them yourself either over the web or at conventions. You can sell them through the shops but if you want to price the book competitively on the shelf you will always lose money. Selling via the shops in Aus should be seen as an investment in your book's "brand" rather than an opportunity to profit - use their shelfspace to bring people to your website and sell them something else there.
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Postby rumpusroomie on Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:27 pm

ohh Baden! that's fantastic news that aussie printers can compete with Ka-Blam. I was seriously disappointed that it looked like i was going to need to go OS to get my book printed. can i email you for a quote?
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Postby Baden on Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:00 am

Sure. I can be contacted off the message board at badenk@bigpond.com.

BTW I'm not trying to drum up business - I just thought I would add something to the thread.

Having said that, I have been working on setting up a comic publishing imprint for the last few months. Our first title is in progress at the moment although nothing has been finalised. Anyone with a good idea looking for a home feel free to email me as well.
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Postby apple head on Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:14 pm

Hey Baden,

No harm in drumming up business, if you offer a service that your competition can't. There's about 30 or 40 people printing small (around 100 copies) runs of comics everytime there's a comic convention. Dude it makes sense you cash in on it. All these people are complaining about their printing services. Come Sydney supanova you could probably get a bunch of interstate punters.

Anywya dude don't be shy about pimping your shop ;) Especially if it's friendly to comic book makers!
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Postby Red J on Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:15 pm

Hi Baden,

It's great to hear form someone in the buisness who realises that it is important to be competitive, and also seems to understand our needs as comic book makers.

I'll definately be getting in touch with you myself as soon as I have more time to work on my personal book again in the next month or so. I think you may be just the guy we are looking for here locally!

Jon.
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Re: sydney printers

Postby apple head on Thu May 29, 2008 1:01 am

I promised you guys that I'll post up prices for printing comics in Korea. My girlfriend is pretty fluent in Korean so that helps too and is quite pursuasive. Our first quotes did start at around $1000.

Anyway for a GN. 64 pages, fancy Japanese Manga style color slip cober and B&W interior. 200 copies is costing me all up $350. The book is 10x12cm, and printed on 180 gsm paper. I should have it delivered to me by next wednesday :) I'll post things up then :) The quality seems good, and the printer is pretty reputable too.
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Re: sydney printers

Postby Baden on Thu May 29, 2008 8:12 am

Can i ask if the book is being perfect bound or saddlestitched?
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Re: sydney printers

Postby jpaulos on Thu May 29, 2008 8:20 am

For that price I wouldn't be surprised if it's got a paper clip in the corner! Unfortunately without insider help Korean printers are out of reach for the rest of us! Doh! Unless Applehead wants to start a part time print broking business!
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Re: sydney printers

Postby apple head on Thu May 29, 2008 11:18 am

It's perfect bound, but yeah, you need insider people, as not everyone here is friendly to a white face, not speeking the local lingo. I just figure to throw the info in just as an interesting point. I think that the Generation guys print their GN anthology in Hong Kong and get it shipped. Anyone else has Asian friends in Asia?

I'll get the book on Wednesday, and tell you guys if the quality is any good. The other products they print looked pretty good to me though.
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Re: sydney printers

Postby rumpusroomie on Thu May 29, 2008 1:38 pm

I haven't actually posted about this yet partyl because I wanted to make more of a fuss and comment while mentioning a launch but I haven't locked that in yet...

Anyway I just got my books back printed with Baden. They look FANTASTIC. The colours are sharp, and despite the fact i do a LOT of gradients there is no banding. Great communication from Baden and a really reasonable price. i'll be taking some to the Melbourne meet for people to look at.

And announcing that launch soon
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