Help with numbers

Working for yourself or for a publisher, chat about the business side here.

Postby jpaulos on Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:19 pm

I'm jumping, I'm jumping ... however, experience has taught me not to invest large amounts of my own money (I'm looking at you Hayden!) on a pipe dream. Artists and writers make terrible business people, I'd advise those wanna be's out there not to make the same mistakes I have!
I'm off to download those Vampirella submission guidelines ... I can still dream, can't I ..?
User avatar
jpaulos
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1350
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:41 pm
Location: Erskineville, Sydney

Postby Anomic on Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:45 pm

The beauty of this situation is we’ve been notice by government and industry and if successful they cough up the cash, support (local & international) and professional guidance… not the other way around. I’ve done the traps with many things before and I gotta say this is the most exciting proposition I’ve ever had. It all still could fall flat on its arse but the investment to date has been time so…

I think the Vamp has your stamp all over it.
Action reveals character
User avatar
Anomic
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:42 am
Location: Warrnambool, Vic

Postby azahru on Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:51 pm

Good luck with your pitch anomic I can imagine Paulos making a disturbingly sexy Vampirella.
User avatar
azahru
Science Hero
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Canberra

Postby jpaulos on Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:01 pm

Thanks Azahru ... I just need a bikini wax and a wig and some fake fangs.
User avatar
jpaulos
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1350
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:41 pm
Location: Erskineville, Sydney

Postby azahru on Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:04 pm

What have I said? What have I done? It burns it burns

... and don't forget the small piece of red ribbon.
User avatar
azahru
Science Hero
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Canberra

Postby Laocorn on Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:46 pm

Graeme, might be something you can get from here; http://www.comtrac.net/cms apart from that the other option might be to contact stores direct to get an idea... but even then they'll probably think your sussing them out and opening up a store yourself and becoming competition.

Jase, that line of thinking I had last year is still floating around in my head, but I'm not jumping fool-hardy into it after hearing those stories.


I'm curious to know whats gotten Graeme so excited though.
"The Best Way to be Remembered is to Have a Life Worth Remembering" - Bruce Lee.

Image
User avatar
Laocorn
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Blaxland, NSW

Postby mark selan on Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:09 pm

in terms of comic readers; back in the day you just had to total the number of x-men sold with the number of Love and Rockets sold and you could figure ut how many people read western comics (ie non-manga).

for a ball park figure there are 30 comic shops in australia; the top selling title is Ultimates. Taking my local comic shop as an average (its in Adelaide and probably the 2nd busiest comic shop in the city) it probably sells about 60 copies of Ultimates. So if 30 shops are selling 60 copies of Ultimates then that's 1800 copies sold in Australia. I think Ultimates sells about 120,000 copies globally, so Australia buys 1.5% of the print run.

So you can look at any print run of a comic and assume that Australia bought 1.5% of that run.

I'd say double that number for people who buy off newstands and who don't buy Ultimates for a total number.

Then there's manga which I've written about http://saveded.blogspot.com/2006/03/man ... ralia.html

of course all these numbers are slippery as but it gives some indication. I'd probably suggest Ringing comic shops around the country to find out how many Ultimates they are ordering.

In terms of an Australian front; an average issue of Ozcomics sold about 400 units with minimum effort.
User avatar
mark selan
Science Hero
 
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:22 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Postby Laocorn on Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:38 pm

"In terms of an Australian front; an average issue of Ozcomics sold about 400 units with minimum effort."

How's Sureshot handling compared? (If you don't mind me asking)
"The Best Way to be Remembered is to Have a Life Worth Remembering" - Bruce Lee.

Image
User avatar
Laocorn
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Blaxland, NSW

Postby mark selan on Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:49 pm

Its hard to tell, I've done one pass through the major shops (minotaur, kings, etc) and I'll probably do a restock soon - which I'm expecting to be better since retailers only bought low numbers since its new and untested.
User avatar
mark selan
Science Hero
 
Posts: 716
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:22 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Postby Anomic on Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:55 am

Thanks for the info and support I may be able to cobble something from this – obviously I naively assumed that there was a peak body or even just a database somewhere. I’m now wondering how on earth people make the decision to actually go into or buy an existing comic book store without these figures – not many other industries would be this dodgy.
Action reveals character
User avatar
Anomic
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:42 am
Location: Warrnambool, Vic

Postby Daren White on Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:49 pm

Comics now have a similar commercial attraction as Barge building or swan upping. However, if you can mug some Government department in to giving you some money, go for it.

Edit, I'm assuming canals as a means of transport have had their day. Apologies to any barge builders, who are currently right at the top of their game ;)
Daren White
Super Genius
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane

Postby Laocorn on Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:11 pm

Anomic wrote:Thanks for the info and support I may be able to cobble something from this – obviously I naively assumed that there was a peak body or even just a database somewhere. I’m now wondering how on earth people make the decision to actually go into or buy an existing comic book store without these figures – not many other industries would be this dodgy.


I get the odd feeling that comics aren't what keeps the shops afloat...
"The Best Way to be Remembered is to Have a Life Worth Remembering" - Bruce Lee.

Image
User avatar
Laocorn
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1755
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:11 pm
Location: Blaxland, NSW

Postby Anomic on Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:19 pm

Following a few links the phosphorescent guys gave me and found this.. for those interested. 5 months and US $99.34 million (top 300 comics in USA)

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=695

Sales for May 2006

http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tab ... stid=12698


Thanks Daren, you’re right, I also think any government agency would run a mile if it was about comic books per say, so it’s not necessarily about comic books…
Action reveals character
User avatar
Anomic
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:42 am
Location: Warrnambool, Vic

Postby Kevin Patrick on Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:23 pm

Anomic

You state in your previous postings that you're only considering sales figures for independently-produced Australian comics, like those currently published by Phosphoresecent Comics (Sydney), which are distributed worldwide via Diamond Distribution.

If, (as I understand your request) you're trying to gauge both the overall $ value of comic book sales in Australia, and what percentage Australian-made comics comprise of that overall figure, then you will wind up with distorted statistics if you focus solely on sales generated by specialty comic shops, at the expense of ignoring newsagency comic book sales.

Why do I say that? Because there are probably less then two dozen specialty comic shops scattered around Australia - as opposed to 5,000+ estimated newsagency outlets (And that's excluding subnewsagencies, such as milkbars, petrol stations & convenience stores.)

And just about every newsagency in Australia carries comic books - obviously not as many as specialty comic shops, but newsagency sales would still have to account for a healthy chunk of overall comic book sales in this country.

By ignoring the output of local mainstream publishers, such as Frew Publications (The Phantom), Otter Press (Aussie reprints of The Simpsons, and Marvel/DC Comics movie tie-ins, like Superman Returns, X-Men 3, etc), and Horwitz Publications (Australian edition of 'Mad' magazine), you are overlooking a significant amount of comic book sales generated by domestic publishers.

For instance, Jim Shepherd once disclosed in an interview with me that the first giant-sized annual edition of The Phantom (back in the mid-1990s) had a print run of 45,000 copies - and that it sold out completely!

And to this date, the Phantom annual edition (while never repeating the complete sell-out of its debut) remains the highest selling issue of The Phantom comic book, year after year.

I've heard/seen references to average sales figures of the regular fortnightly edition of The Phantom ranging from 18,000 copies to 30,000 copies per issue. But this is, at best,'informed speculation' - even so, I doubt few imported American comics achieve comparable per-issue sales in Australian specialty comic book shops.

I've not had any contact with Otter Press, but they clearly must be doing something right, because their line of locally-packaged reprints of Simpsons comics titles (along with selected Marvel/DC/Dark Horse titles) seems to be continually expanding. It would seem unlikely that they would persist in publishing full colour comic books locally, if the sales figures weren't adding up for them.

And what about kids magazines, such as K-Zone, Krash, Mania, Total Girl, etc? They all carry localy-drawn comic strips - and most of these magazines average sales in excess of 70,000 copies per month, with an estimated readership of between 100,000-120,000 kids per issue (This figure probably applies to the top-selling titles in the kids magazine category - but I'd wager that even the poorest-selling Australian kids mags would regularly outsell any imported American comic sold via specialty comic shops.)

Again, I would suggest that you ignore their slice of overall Australian comic book sales at your peril - otherwise, you could be inadvertently supplying your prospective backers/sponsors with distorted statistics, on which to base their investment.

Gordon and Gotch (http://www.gordongotch.com.au) are the single largest distributor of comic books in Australia, which services the newsagency/sub-newsagency market. While I doubt they'd be willing to disclose sales figures for individual titles, perhaps they might be able to give you an overall figure on the $ value of comic book sales in Australia, based on sales figures of the titles they distribute.

Likewise, perhaps Diamond Distribution can give you an overal figure for the $ value of comic books they ship to Australia annually, and what % of global comic book sales that Australia accounts for. (I doubt they'd be willing to disclose such info, but it never hurts to ask)

By comparing estimates of Australian comic books sales from Diamond and local distributors (such as Gordon & Gotch), you will arguably have a better idea of overall $ value of comic book sales in this country.

Like some of the other people who've posted replies to this topic, I must express my puzzlement about your need for these figures - especially if your project has little (or nothing!) to do with publishing comic books.

Hopefully, after receiving all this advice, you might be in a position to let us in on your plans, sometime down the track.


Good luck with your venutre - whatever it might be!

- Kevin Patrick
Kevin Patrick
Buzz Productions
W: comicsdownunder.blogspot.com
W: amazing-australia.blogspot.com
E: buzzproductions2001@yahoo.com.au
Kevin Patrick
Superhero
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:48 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby Anomic on Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:59 pm

Hey Kevin,
thanks for that. Some good points that I’ll try to keep in mind, although I feel that this type of market research is getting way beyond my ability… there are simply too many individually held stats and cobbling them all together is a huge job.

If we are successful there may be some finance to actually do this desperately needed market research but at this stage we are small and already overworked just trying to prove the basics.

The Phosphorescent Guys gave us the Diamond site showing their sales and titles

http://www.diamondcomics.com/market_share.html

it has some interesting info but local (even Australasian) stats are hard to come by.

As for letting you know what we’re up to…. If we come through this process unscathed and even a bit successful you’ll have no worries in hearing the crowing…
Action reveals character
User avatar
Anomic
Destroyer of Worlds
 
Posts: 1126
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:42 am
Location: Warrnambool, Vic

PreviousNext

Return to The Business

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron