Destiny...?

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Destiny...?

Postby Fah on Sun May 18, 2008 11:51 am

Is it all just genetic predisposition that we do what we do...? Is that where the drive comes from...? Or is there something more governing our lives and informing our choices...? What about that little voice inside that isn't always so little when it's screaming at you not to do a particular thing...?
Sometimes the situation is more subtle but with implications every bit as important. And you don't always know why you've made a particular choice at the time but in hindsight the result suggests it was the smartest thing you could have done. I think it relies heavily on being honest with yourself. The more honest you are with you the more you can rely on that voice to guide you.

Am I nuts...? Does this make sense to anyone...?

And another thing. Is it arrogant to believe you have a destiny? I mean if you get to live this life with a fully functional body and are in a position to CHOOSE to follow your heart whether it be to write or draw, does that belief suggest that you are somehow singled out as special. Because in another country less fortunate than ours, some baby dies shortly after birth due to malnutrition or disease, etc. and wasn't granted the same opportunity. Why not...? What makes the rest of us so much more important or deserving (when we have probably all caused suffering to some degree even if it was just with an unkind remark)and this baby hasn't even had a chance to prove it's worth?
To believe that your life was meant to be, isn't that to believe that another's wasn't?

So.
Is there destiny? Can it be accounted for exclusively by a combination of genes and plain old fashioned good luck? (But aren't the genes you inherit a matter of luck to begin with?) Or should we attribute that 'luck' to some unseen force...?
Is it arrogant to believe in destiny...?

I know that's too many questions. Not to mention two different lines of inquiry. But I'm new at this. So take a shot. I really want to know.
Oh and one other thing before I go. If you're going to respond please don't paste articles and quotes from Dr. So and So of the Institute of Bornfuckinggeniuses in Sweden. I don't care what he thinks. I want to know your thoughts and feelings. This is how I get to know you.
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Re: Destiny...?

Postby bluetoaster on Mon May 19, 2008 12:52 pm

Fah wrote:Is it all just genetic predisposition that we do what we do...? Is that where the drive comes from...? Or is there something more governing our lives and informing our choices...? What about that little voice inside that isn't always so little when it's screaming at you not to do a particular thing...?

To me, this is just the 'dream' or 'desire' - and we all have it to one degree or another. Some make it tactile in the real world and 'do' something with that dream - while others don't.

Fah wrote:So.
Is there destiny? Can it be accounted for exclusively by a combination of genes and plain old fashioned good luck? (But aren't the genes you inherit a matter of luck to begin with?) Or should we attribute that 'luck' to some unseen force...?
Is it arrogant to believe in destiny...?

I don't believe it's destiny, luck, etc. There's just far too much conscious effort & sacrifice involved in producing comics. Some of it comes down to environment, but again, it's your choice as to what you choose to do in your time. Personally, I've never subscribed to 'luck' or 'destiny' in making comics. To me, It seems a little 'lazy' to leave your success up to the 'Gods' - because then you can just as easily 'blame' them for your failure.

The desire to make comics has to be in the blood. Financially & sensibly, its not a good bet - but no-one can talk you out of doing it. You continue to get better & better, and through that logic - there is a sense of 'arrogance' that you trust you WILL get better the more you produce & publish and are known.

To me its about making the most of a risky obsession thats been proven to 'work' for a minority of people that are your mentor's/betters - (& who have a similar comics infection as yours in their blood). It's akin to being in love. It doesn't have to make 'sense' to anybody but you in the end.

Arrogance, yes - but destiny?... no. I don't subscribe to it.

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Re: Destiny...?

Postby Fah on Wed May 21, 2008 8:40 am

Bobby. Thanks for the response.

And a good one too. You sound intensely practical and full of commonsense.
Your answer appeals to me in that I like the idea of personal responsibility, it's something I firmly believe in. But having a strong sense of personal responsibility doesn't necessarily preclude a belief in destiny. (Let's talk about the phenomenon and not it's source eg. God, whatever, as that polarises the discussion and makes it emotional for some.)
I don't agree that it's lazy. Or that it promotes laziness. You're still doing your absolute best, it's just that you accept that maybe some things aren't meant to be. And the consolation is you've had a great life because you got to do what you wanted. That's a BIG consolation.

Have you never in your life experienced a coincidence, or a series of them that just seem too timely, too neat to be just that-coincidence...? Yes it could be all the unconscious. But the romantic in me wants to believe in destiny.
You seem like a guy who thinks a lot. You must know yourself well. Are you the sort to question everything that goes on in your life and analyse it? I do a bit of that.
Yes your unconscious could be pulling your strings in ways you don't realise. But what about when you meet someone by chance and they just happen to have what you need at the time? (Let's not limit experience to the comic book world either. What does your life experience tell you.) I recently met a girl that I liked. I liked her enough to base a concept on her. I tried to get to know her. I left two notes for her with my local comic book proprietor on two separate occasions. On both occassions she turned up the very day on which I left the notes (after I had left.) And I had no idea she would be there. Is this what they call the work of the collective unconscious...?
What do you make of it...? (Yes I'm becoming irrelevant to the site by digressing from comics specifically but humour me.) Oh. And the reason I' m persisting with this topic is that it is one of the themes I intend to write about.
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Re: Destiny...?

Postby bluetoaster on Wed May 21, 2008 2:59 pm

Fah wrote:You sound intensely practical and full of commonsense.

I'd like to think so.

Fah wrote:(Destiny)...I don't agree that it's lazy. Or that it promotes laziness.

Oh, I think there's a BIG chance that it can.
It depends on how (as you say) practical a person you are.

Fah wrote:You're still doing your absolute best,

Will you do your best if you know your destiny is to fail, or accomplish FAR less than you hoped for?

Fah wrote:it's just that you accept that maybe some things aren't meant to be. And the consolation is you've had a great life because you got to do what you wanted. That's a BIG consolation.

If you goal is to just enjoy the 'journey'. Yes.
Perosnally, I aim for something - and the journey is enjoyable anyway because of my drive to that destination. I don't like wasting time. I realize that others may not worry about the destination as much. I do.

Fah wrote:Have you never in your life experienced a coincidence, or a series of them that just seem too timely, too neat to be just that-coincidence...?

I don't believe in 'lightning striking'. Being a more practical person, it's been proven to me over the years that: The harder I work, the luckier I get.

Fah wrote:But the romantic in me wants to believe in destiny.

And there's the difference between some of us...Im not very romantic at all.

Fah wrote:But what about when you meet someone by chance and they just happen to have what you need at the time? (Let's not limit experience to the comic book world either. What does your life experience tell you.). I recently met a girl that I liked. I liked her enough to base a concept on her. I tried to get to know her. I left two notes for her with my local comic book proprietor on two separate occasions. On both occassions she turned up the very day on which I left the notes (after I had left.) And I had no idea she would be there. Is this what they call the work of the collective unconscious...?
What do you make of it...?

Whenever I've relied on fate, tattslotto, love, horoscopes, gods, others - I've more than often been disappointed with the results. It's even emblematic of many conversations on these boards where people want to treat comics as a 'hobby', compared with those that treat them like a second-job (ie.More seriously). Those that treat them like a hobby will probably get the 'rewards' of a hobby and nothing else. The others have a better chance of leaving their day-job the harder (and more prolific) they become at it. It reminds me of would-be-models who like the romantic idea of being discovered walking down the street. (ie. least effort possible - for the biggest rewards.) . Makes me laugh.

I suspect its the same with finding a girlfriend/boyfriend.

When I was a teenager, if i went with 'fate', I quickly saw that i got the girls that were given to me. Later, i grew some balls and just got what I wanted. Maybe It's because im not romantic. Maybe it's because I don't like uncertainty... but, there's enough thats out of our control in life without trusting in 'fate' when you could have done something to make it at least more certain.

Again, for me at least, fate/promises are a very risky way to accomplish what you want in this life.

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Re: Destiny...?

Postby Fah on Thu May 22, 2008 6:54 am

Whoah! Bobby, Bobby, Bobby...

Dear oh dear.

Some of the hardest working (and most successful) people I've ever met believe in fate. I myself want to, but am undecided.
Romantic...? Yes. Some of my best ideas spring from my romantic nature. Creativity can absolutely thrive on romance. The girl I met in the comic book store inspired me to create an entire concept.
And it's not just about leaving it to fate. It's a delicate balance that requires knowing yourself, what's best for you and knowing when to let things go or back away. This is why I say honesty with oneself is paramount to happiness. I don't go in for horoscopes or any other type of (what I regard) as pseudo predictive science. I do believe in the heart and mind. I believe in searching for personal truth and through that self-reliance. There is so much we don't know about the brain. What it's capabilities are, etc. We do know that we use bugger all of it. And see what we can do! Imagine if we had access to the rest.
What I'm saying is that you can't rule out possibilities wholesale when there's so much we don't know about ourselves let alone the universe. Also I think creativity can only benefit from an open mind.
I absolutely agree with you that the harder you work the more opportunities you create. But belief in fate DOES NOT make a person lazy. Laziness is in the person to begin with. That's just an excuse. Lazy people look for excuses.
I am very hard working, very ambitious and committed to living life the way I want. In order to pursue even just the hope of a career in this industry talking to you (which I'm enjoying) is now my social life. And I'm not complaining-I'm an inveterate loner anyway. But just because I want to believe in fate or might one day embrace the idea does not make me lazy or suspect when it comes to work.
And surely you don't just walk through life taking whatever you want without consideration. Please tell me that's not what you meant! There's plenty of room in life for empathy.
It is as much about the journey as it is the ends! It's called a balance. And if you don't think there is a need for that then just take a look at the world we've fucked up.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Re: Destiny...?

Postby bluetoaster on Thu May 22, 2008 10:35 am

Fah wrote:Some of the hardest working (and most successful) people I've ever met believe in fate. I myself want to, but am undecided.

Sure there are.
I know.

I'm just giving you my take on things. For example: I'm open minded enough to not discount the existence of ghosts even if i haven't seen one. Unless it's shown/proven to me - I tend to be fairly open-minded. If you read my words, you'll notice im always careful to try and not use absolutes when dealing with large concepts/issues. I'll try not to use phrases like "All men are....".

Fah wrote:I believe in searching for personal truth and through that self-reliance.

Exactly. I think your own perceptions of life experience are the greatest barometers of truth.

Fah wrote:But belief in fate DOES NOT make a person lazy.

True. But i said there's a big chance it can make them lazy.
I won't discount possibilities - but i do tend to observe the most probable outcomes.
It depends on a person's character.

Fah wrote:And surely you don't just walk through life taking whatever you want without consideration. Please tell me that's not what you meant! There's plenty of room in life for empathy.

No. Not at all. But I do tend to be honest with what I want from my life.
If I want steak. I'll order steak. And then I'll eat steak - or go elsewhere where i can.

Basically, I treat others as I'd hope to be treated.

Fah wrote:It is as much about the journey as it is the ends! It's called a balance. And if you don't think there is a need for that then just take a look at the world we've fucked up.

Oh sure. Im a BIG advocate of 'thinking' before people set on a course. I've always taken a while to make decisions, and am an obsessive planner (or some would say, procrastinator :) ).

The way the world is screwed/ing up is a concern to me, especially socially (and unfortunately a great source of ideas for writing), where many people don't want to look at how we've come to this point - but instead want to put band-aids on it and just "move forward".

For instance, some of the people on these boards know my opinions on men, women & society - so I've always tended to be mindful of the domino effects of personal decisions and their probable effects over time. Again, this shows my adherence to looking at logic and the world around me, rather than the mystical and theoretical.

All i know is, for myself, fate is a non-issue.
For me, it's like waiting for a bus that'll probably never come... so why not just walk.

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Re: Destiny...?

Postby Fah on Thu May 22, 2008 9:00 pm

Quite right Bobby.

You're clearly a very thoughful person. In review I think on at least a couple of points I misread you. (Who knew you were so pedantic about words- and just when I was making a case to refute charges of my own laziness!) But I'm glad you cleared it up if only for my benefit.
And considering my goal was to get to know you through this topic I'd say it's thrashed beyond it's use by date.
So unless you've anything else to add, I'll see you in the forum (where I'll look for other opportunities to misread you.)

Fah.
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Re: Destiny...?

Postby AndreiB on Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:37 pm

bluetoaster wrote:Being a more practical person, it's been proven to me over the years that: The harder I work, the luckier I get.

Nailed it.
Writer and illustrator of Dead by Thirty.
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